Re: [Cz-L] Resilience

Dear Mimi,
Yes there were organizer mass killings:
The beginning July 1941 more than 2,000 Jews were killed in the streets in Czernowitz by Romanian troops, including the chief Rabbi Mark.
>From Bukovina, thousands were taken into fields and forests, ordered to dig enormous mass graves, and shot. Those who dumped the bodies into the graves were shot after their job was done; they were barely covered with dirt. At times the earth would move from people who were buried while still alive. The following numbers of Jews murdered by shooting speak for themselves "In Domanovka --18,000; in Bogdanovka -- 48,000; in Acmechetka -- 5,000; in Vertujeni -- 23,000, there is more. It is just not recognized, our office is fighting with Yad Veshem.
There is a true story that some peasants bought the living Jews for 1,500-2,000 lei, and then had them shot by the soldiers so that they could take off their clothes.

August 2010, in a place called Budi, I found the mass grave where my mother was buried.

We did not suffer more than the Jews at Auschwitz, our people died just the same.

Calling Transnitria Holocaust Lite is very upsetting.

Arthur

--- On Sun, 2/3/13, Miriam Taylor <mirtaylo_at_indiana.edu> wrote:

> From: Miriam Taylor <mirtaylo_at_indiana.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Cz-L] Resilience
> To: "Jacob Greenberg" <grs_software_at_bigpond.com>
> Cc: "Arthur von Czernowitz" <vonczernowitz_at_yahoo.com>, Czernowitz-L_at_cornell.edu
> Date: Sunday, February 3, 2013, 4:41 PM
> The debate over who suffered more;
> Romanian Jews or Polish,
> Ukrainian and Hungarian Jews, is an old debate and a very
> ugly one.
> Each individual person who suffered because of the
> Holocaust,
> even though aware of the calamity which had befallen all
> European Jews,
> experienced his or her suffering individually;
> A Hungarian Jewish mother whose children were gassed in
> Auschwitz
> and a Bukovina Jewish mother whose children died of hunger
> or frostbite,
> both suffered terribly. Nothing to debate or discuss.
>
> It is a fact, that in some countries a greater or lesser
> percentage
> of the Jewish population survived. The Germans, in their own
> country
> and in all the territories they conquered, had exact plans
> as to what to do
> with their Jewish population, almost from the start.
> German Austrian and Check Jews were sent to death camps or
> work camps,
> which eventually, also became death camps. In the countries
> and territories
> they conquered, they initially practiced "death by bullets"
> - Mass shooting
> of the Jewish population. When they realized that death by
> bullets was inefficient,
> they shipped the Jewish population to the death-camps. Old
> people, children
> and their mothers were killed immediately, young healthy men
> and women
> were used as slave labor and often managed to survive.
>
> The Romanians had no detailed plans as to what to do with
> the Jews
> they deported to the newly conquered part of Ukraine, called
> Transnistria,
> which extended east of Romania, into Ukraine up to the river
> Bug.
> They just wanted to get rid of them. That is why, they
> established few
> organized camps and no organized mass killings in
> Transnistria.
> That is why most Bucovina Jews, who were deported and died
> in Transnistria,
> died on the forced marches to Transnistria, or perished
> there from hunger,
> cold and disease.
> The territory east of the Bug had been conquered by German
> forces
> and was under their rule.
> Some of the Romanian soldiers were squeamish about killing
> Jews,
> that is why they handed the old, or infirm or rebellious
> Jews over
> to the Germans on the other side of the Bug, where they were
> executed,
> either by shooting or by hanging.
>
> Three of my relatives were murdered on the eastern side of
> the Bug;
> a great aunt Hana Wisnitzer and her daughter Rifka, by
> shooting.
> And a cousin of my mother, Itzik Fruchter was hanged.
> A German officer also wanted to murder his three children
> and came looking for them in the camp, but the oldest
> daughter,
> then about 14 years old managed to hide herself and her
> siblings
> inside rucksacks and thus escaped death.
> To the best of my knowledge, they are all still alive and
> have children,
> grandchildren and probably great-grandchildren.
>
> Mimi
>
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2013, at 5:25 AM, Jacob Greenberg wrote:
>
> > My mother told me that their worst fear was to be
> guarded by German soldiers. In fact, those members of her
> family who ended up with  Germans taking  control
> did not survive.
> >
> > That's what she told me. Anecdotal evidence, no facts.
> >
> > Serah Kraft
> >
> > -----
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Received on 2013-02-03 14:37:29